tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post6733634095328092468..comments2024-01-02T16:09:57.364-07:00Comments on Intrepid Lutherans: An Essay on the Article of Justification: The Forensic Appeal to the Throne of GraceIntrepid Lutheranshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05867580862562801804noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-51769602788799467562013-09-23T18:21:08.782-07:002013-09-23T18:21:08.782-07:00Angie, I agree with many of the points you made he...Angie, I agree with many of the points you made here. I don't know who you're arguing against with most of them. Of course Christ died for all. Of course Christ made atonement for the whole world. That Christ died for all is called the "atonement," or at times, redemption. To forgive the sins of someone is to apply the atonement to them. That's what God does through Baptism and the Lord's Supper, through which He remits sins. He does not remit sins without means. "Died for all" does not mean "forgave the world." All the fathers of the Lutheran Church taught the exact same thing. The forgiveness of sins was earned by Christ for all. God forgives sins through the means of grace as the Word creates faith in the hearts of men, faith through which God imputes to them the righteousness of Christ.<br /><br />Did you read the essay above, or are you just imagining that I have said something I have never said? Please read the essay. Then we can deal with the real issues instead of all these straw men.Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-78367253844737170202013-09-23T17:45:03.048-07:002013-09-23T17:45:03.048-07:00QUOTE: ~"Neither of those verses says what yo...QUOTE: ~"Neither of those verses says what you claim the Lord Jesus says. Here are your words again: He says:" The whole world has been forgiven, he who believes and is baptized will be saved." So, either you're putting words into Jesus' mouth that He never spoke, or you must have in mind some other verse of Holy Scripture where the Lord Jesus says what you said He said that I am unaware of."~<br /><br />2 Corinthians 5:15-20 "And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again...that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God."<br /><br />The whole world has been forgiven = Reconciling the world to himself...not counting men's sins against them.<br /><br /><br />Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"<br /><br />The whole world has been forgiven = God’s enemies were reconciled to him<br /><br />You responded to that verse on face book by saying: QUOTE: “The "we" who were reconciled to God in Rom. 5:10 is the same "we" from verse 1 of that chapter, the "we" who have been justified by faith.”<br /><br />It’s not the “we” who have been justified by faith as you stated. It is the “we” “When we were God’s enemies” just as the passage states. Those who have been “justified by faith “ are not God’s enemies. But this verse states that God’s enemies were reconciled to him. So no, it’s not just believers. <br /><br />1 John 2:2 “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world..”<br /><br />He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of believers and unbelievers, it clearly says: “the whole world”, not just believers, it clearly says: “Not only ours” <br /><br /><br />John 1:29 “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”<br /><br />The whole world has been forgiven = takes away the sin of the world<br /><br />2 Corinthians 5:14-15 “For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.”<br /><br />He died for ALL and therefore ALL died. All have died, but not all live. Those who believe the gospel live! But notice he died for ALL, not just for those who will live. <br /><br />1 Timothy 4:10 “ that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”<br /><br />He is the savior of all men, not just those who believe. <br /><br />1 Timothy 4:6 “who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time”<br /><br />A ransom for ALL men, not just believers<br /><br />2 Peter 2:1 “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.”<br /><br />False teachers denying the Lord who bought them. In other words, an unbeliever was bought by the Lord. <br /><br />John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”<br /><br />He gave his one and only Son for the world, not just for believers. <br /><br />Romans 5:18 “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.”<br /><br />The once act was for “All men” <br /><br />At the Last Supper, Jesus said (Lk.22:19, I Cor.11:24) “This is My body, which is for <br />you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Judas the unbeliever was there, Jesus gave his body and blood to Judas too. <br /><br /><br />Angie IshereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-71487400221309683322013-09-23T10:21:49.341-07:002013-09-23T10:21:49.341-07:00But while you're searching for those words of ...But while you're searching for those words of Christ, let me reference some actual words that He said that directly contradict what you claim He said:<br /><br />"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other;" (Lk 18:14)<br /><br />He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (Jn 20:22-23)<br /><br />"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)<br /><br />"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)<br /><br />"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)<br /><br />"Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt. 18:18)<br /><br /><br /><br />Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-25672727387019785562013-09-23T10:16:50.405-07:002013-09-23T10:16:50.405-07:00Neither of those verses says what you claim the Lo...Neither of those verses says what you claim the Lord Jesus says. Here are your words again:<br /><br /><i>He says:" The whole world has been forgiven, he who believes and is baptized will be saved."</i><br /><br />So, either you're putting words into Jesus' mouth that He never spoke, or you must have in mind some other verse of Holy Scripture where the Lord Jesus says what you said He said that I am unaware of.Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-6348321984328521922013-09-23T09:13:47.885-07:002013-09-23T09:13:47.885-07:002 Corinthians 5:15-20 "And he died for all, t...2 Corinthians 5:15-20 "And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again...that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God."<br /><br /><br /><br />Romans 5:10 "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"<br /><br /><br />Angie IshereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-6750843104208330732013-09-23T06:59:46.164-07:002013-09-23T06:59:46.164-07:00The words of Christ that I cited are from Mark 16:...The words of Christ that I cited are from Mark 16:16. What verse were you quoting?Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-89973164586704765342013-09-22T21:49:04.740-07:002013-09-22T21:49:04.740-07:00QUOTE: "He does not say: 'All have been s...QUOTE: "He does not say: 'All have been saved! So believe it and be baptized.'"<br /><br />Agreed. He says:" The whole world has been forgiven, he who believes and is baptized will be saved."<br /><br />Angie Ishere<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-76951856495125452012013-09-22T12:36:48.608-07:002013-09-22T12:36:48.608-07:00(Dear IL readers, Angie's comment above is a c...(Dear IL readers, Angie's comment above is a continuation of a Facebook discussion which I am glad is now moving over to IL. Angie, please include your last name if you post again.)<br /><br />Angie, you're using the Baptist argument here against the Sacraments. They say the same thing, that making baptism a means of salvation is turning it into salvation by works. It is simply a wrong and unbiblical conclusion.<br /><br />The words of Christ are, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." The Lord Christ is turning neither baptism nor faith into a human work that merits salvation. Rather, He teaches that salvation is given through Baptism and through faith. He does not say, "All have been saved! So believe it and be baptized." He says it the other way around.<br /><br />Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-56133297386921892392013-09-22T11:40:45.255-07:002013-09-22T11:40:45.255-07:00QUOTE: "Angie, to say that forgiveness rests ...QUOTE: "Angie, to say that forgiveness rests on faith is to say that forgiveness rests on Christ, because faith is how a sinner receives Christ and His merit. Those who have not received Christ are still in their sins as far as God is concerned, and therefore, not forgiven. Forgiveness means something. If you're forgiven, then you're not going to hell. The way you're talking about forgiveness, most of the "forgiven" people in the world will be going to hell. That is unbiblical and wrong."<br /><br />Repentance and Faith become "salvation by works" when forgiveness is received as the result of your repentance and Faith.<br /><br />Angie<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881617320676906596.post-33163278277495920212013-05-30T04:57:02.865-07:002013-05-30T04:57:02.865-07:00Thank you Pastor Rydecki for another faithful trea...Thank you Pastor Rydecki for another faithful treatise on Christ's chief article of Justification.Brett Meyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15916121605136512091noreply@blogger.com